Sage TV software. Creating your own PVR for the UK

1 Summary
2 Background
3 Expected Benefits
4 Stage One Linux & MythTV 5
4.1 Hardware
4.2 Software Install
5 Stage Two Windows & SageTV
5.1 Installation
5.2 TV listings outside North America
5.3 Lack of activity on UK Sage newsgroups
5.4 Stability of PVR-350 when used for TV out
5.5 Limited Documentation?
5.6 NTL set top box and channel changing
5.7 Other Issues
5.8 My hardware
5.9 Hauppauge Media Player
5.10 Picture quality and sound
5.11 Other SageTV features
5.12 November 2nd 2004 Updates
5.13 Jan 2007 Updates

1 Summary

Sage is Windows software that helps create turn a PC into a Digital Video Recorder (DVR) or Personal Video Recorder (PVR).


For more details about DVRs

Is SageTV worth buying for a UK resident? -Yes

What are its strengths and weaknesses?

Strengths - fairly easy to install and reasonably stable.

Weaknesses- Not free (after trial period) cost about $80.
Some useful TV Cards which work in Europe are not supported.

The best sources of information are:
Manual: At last a manual (in pdf format) starting with Version 2.1
The forums:

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/

http://www.sage-community.org/
- This is new Aug 2004 and great for getting started.

To download trial version:

http://www.sage.tv/download.html/

Other reviews
http://www.byopvr.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-9-page-1.html

The next one has lots of screen shots:

http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=sagetv_1

2 Background

Dec 2003
I wanted to build a TIVO style device or Sky+ Box (20 hours) but with space for 100+ hours of TV and future expansion.

I get the "Freeview" channels via my NTL set top box and send that signal to my TVPC.
I knew it would not be cheap but thought I could recycle most of the parts if it did not work out.
I wanted the box to go in the living room with output to the TV, without a monitor if possible.

3 Expected Benefits

Easier recording than video, just select from program guide to record.
No need to change the tape etc
Easy filing of programs so easy to replay.
Improved picture quality?

This would be a dedicated entertainment box possibly with some MP3 files on later.
Possibility to save to DVD in the future.

I was also interested in using Linux if possible to save money.
Of course you need broadband internet access for research and download purposes.

4 Stage One Linux & MythTV

I came across the MythTV site and Jarod C Wilson's excellent guide.
http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php
on how to install.
The MythTV forum http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users


4.1 Hardware

I saw that the Hauppauge 350 PVR was well rated and had a TV out facility built in (ah, money saver I thought).

I think this was my biggest mistake of the project.
Now I'd buy perhaps a 250-PVR without TV out and buy a separate TV out card.
Both cards have an in built MPEG encoder for recording. This normally places a 5% load on my CPU when recording. The 350 has hardware playback for TV out as well (say 5-10%) CPU time.
My TV out card places a 70-80% load on CPU.
However, I've not researched new TV capture and TV out cards for 3 months.

I wanted a quiet case for the living room so I bought an Antec Sonata (tower case).
The case fan is amazingly quiet. However, the CPU fan and the TV out card I bought later did raise the noise.

The disk drives are very quiet even during recording/playback.

4.2 Software Install

I attempted to install MythTV with Red Hat 9 in Jan 2004. I have limited Linux experience, I have never

recompiled kernels etc, but do I run a Redhat 9 Linux box as Firewall, internet browser, email. However, with

Jarod C Wilson's guide you just had to follow his instructions, no expertise was assumed.

Unfortunately I could not get a picture, just black & white snow.
There were 2 problems. Firstly most of the experts were American or at least not UK based. This meant PAL
problems and tuning channels in the UK were less well explained via the newsgroups.
Secondly the 350-PVR drivers were not well documented again for PAL & UK use.
Even the American experts were reporting difficulties with the 350-PVR.

I tried again with a German fully automated Linux install

http://knoppmythwiki.homelinux.org/index.php?page=KnoppMyth
)
This was quick to install but I got the same snow problem and I quickly abandoned it.

Jarod C Wilson brought out a new guide for Red Hat Fedora 1.
This heavily uses the site of Axel Thimm and apt to automatically download Fedora patches, MythTV software and
lots of drivers etc. It is well documented and fairly simple if you read Jarod's notes.
With a 600K broadband connection it takes about 2 hours for a Linux install and software install.

Unfortunately I still got stuck with the same problem no TV picture just snow.
The 350-PVR drivers were still badly documented (this is the really annoying bit). In their defence they are
still in beta and you are expected to be come an expert and learn what patch file to apply. I did not have time
for this.

I think if I'd bought another TV capture card or tried separate TV out on Linux things might have been a lot
smoother.

5 Stage Two Windows & SageTV

5.1 Installation

I started to look for a Windows alternative.
I came across:
http://mythtv.pscs.co.uk

I have not tried any other software apart from the free software that comes from Hauppauge.
I checked out the requirements:
http://www.sage.tv/requirements.html
I reinstalled XP Professional and downloaded SageTV trial version (it only lasts 2 weeks and then you have to
reinstall XP!). I started with version 2.019 and then 2.020.

Within half a day (including XP install) I had a TV picture with sound!
The problems I encountered were generally me being silly and forgetting to install various drivers for the Hauppauge 350.

Issues with Sage

5.2 TV listings outside North America

You need to get a source of TV listings.
SageTV supports 3rd party tools which capture the data in XML format.
There is no commercial source of TV listings in the UK from 3rd parties.

This is a real concern because without listings SageTV would be worse than a Video Recorder.
I've begun to loose count of the number of solutions which have come and gone in the last 6 months. However, the good news is I've always had TV listings and the Radio Times feed is the best I've had so far see 5.12 below for details.

5.3 Lack of activity on UK Sage newsgroups

Don't worry about this one. There are some very helpful people here. The main issue for Brits is getting the XML TV listings working. All other issues are dealt with in the general forums.

5.4 Stability of PVR-350 when used for TV out

Recording programs worked well. I could use XP remote desktop to connect to the TVPC and schedule recordings. I could also use remote desktop to control play back onto the TV. Picture quality was good (better than a video
but obviously not live TV).

Ideally you want the Sage program to display on your TV and to use the Hauppauge remote to control it.
This did not work reliably with Hauppauge pvr-350 card.
This generated discussions on the forums (e.g.


http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6124"

The solution was to buy a separate TV out graphics card
I bought a PNY GFX 5200 (PCI) card in a hurry. (some cards have noisy fans like this one).
So now the PVR-350 records programs and the GFX 520 displays my Windows desktop and Sage TV program to my PC.

Without the MPEG playback of the PVR-350 TV out, PNY makes the machine work harder during playback (70%-80 CPU utilisation) but this is not an issue as it is a dedicated machine.

5.5 Limited Documentation?

Version 2.1 of Sage now has a 200 page .pdf file (long overdue). So this issue has been addressed.

There are faqs: http://www.sage-community.org/index.cgi/wiki/SageFaq
and a popular set of forums:


http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6124

There is some excellent & expert help available on the forums

http://www.sage-community.org
is new, (started Aug 2004) and looks like a real time saver if the Manual lets you down.

5.6 NTL set top box and channel changing

I have bought an add in that allows SageTV to automatically change the set top box to any channel (£30).

Before this add on I could only record the terrestrial channels and had to manually tune the NTL box for each cable channel.

This is a new facility for me, something my old VCR could not do!
see
http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7082
for details

5.7 Other Issues

Source of TV signal. This may limit where you can place your PC.

The PVR-350 will take a signal from its Tuner (terrestrial TV), or composite signal from

NTL/Telewest/Sky?/Freeview boxes

Remote control - this needs to able to see your PC.

Connection to internet or home network - needed for TV listings

Picture signal from TVPC to TV
My 8 year old TV has scart connections and a composite video (old style aerial connection).

S-video is a popular output from graphics cards (4 pin din).
I had a conversion box that takes outputs from S-video to a scart lead.
I then got a B&W picture with no sound. When I adjusted by TV to expect Svideo I got colour but no sound was output.
Using a Y connector I now output sound from my PC sound card to my TV scart socket


Distance between TVPC and TV. How long a Svideo lead have you got?

For some guidance on PC hardware see

"http://www.sage-community.org/index.cgi/wiki/BasicSetup"

5.8 My hardware

Is adequate for the job (11 months old).
PVR-350 (PAL)
Athlon XP 2800+
MSI K7N2 Delta
G Force FX 5200 PCI (TV Out)
512 MB RAM
Disk ST380011T & ST3160023AS (240GB)
Case Antec Sonata
Dual layer DVD Writer

XP Prof, SP2 & updates
Sage 2.0.20

5.9 Hauppauge Media Player

This is an option if you want to have your TVPC in one room and your TV in another (with the Hauppauge Media Player).

Both devices must be on your home network.
I have not tried this out but it got good reviews.
Cost from about £50 e.g. PC World.
You use Media player to work as like Windows File Explorer to locate your video files on the TVPC and to output

TV signal to the TV. The Media Player has a remote control.
You would record programs etc using the Sage interface on the TVPC (i.e. cannot use Media player for this).

5.10 Picture quality and sound

I've had a few examples of Sage skipping a couple of frames/
The sound is out of lip sync. sometimes - but not enough to spoil it for me.
You can add a time delay in Sage for better sync.

5.11 Other SageTV features

There is a mode that guesses what programs you will like and records them automatically -untested should be

used after a month when you have a viewing history.
Automatically avoiding recording same episode twice
-untested

a Skipping adverts.

Not built into SageTV. You have to ffwd 20secs at a time.
There is now a free add on, not sure how good it is. But it generated lots of comments on the forums
e.g. http://www.sage-community.org/index.cgi/wiki/ComSkip

b Disk usage.

I set my recording at the "Max" quality for the PVR350 card.
This is 5.9GB an hour.
You are recommended to format the video disk in 64K (i.e. largest size) segments.
I was surprised by the level of disk fragmentation even on a new 160GB drive
Executive software Diskeeper does help, can schedule automatic fixes. There is a 30 day trial. I bought a version via Ebay

c Record 2 channels simultaneously

SageTV can cope with multiple TV cards (e.g. PVR-350) if you wish to record more than program at a time. There

is no additional charge for this.

I only need one TV card so have no experience of this.

d Buying software

When you buy the software you may find a coupon to take a % off the price
E.g. code “HAUPP” took 10% off my $80 bill.

5.12 November 2nd 2004


Summary
1 Better TV listings now available
2 Sage provides a User Manual!
3 Switched sound to TV from PC speakers.
4 2.1 Beta working well
5 Looking at MPEG4 file compression
6 Weaknesses with Sage hardware support for Europeans
7 Hardware news
8 Removing adverts manually

5.12.1 Better TV listings now available

This has been the most important change of the last month.
The Radio Times stopped individual users of XMLTV from taking web pages from their site.

However, they have generously setup a free alternative service which is
used by accessed using http://www.birtles.org.uk/xmltv/
This is excellent freeware which downloads the file and partially reformats.
The result is detailed listings (with 1-3 paragraphs on each program) that take a max of 2 minutes to update each day.
see http://forums.freytechnologies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1484 for step by step guide
This is up to 2 weeks of listings.

5.12.2 Sage provides a User Manual
- now a 200 page pdf file is available with Version 2.1.
This is much better than having to look on the Forums when you are starting out.

5.12.3 Switched sound to TV from PC speakers.
I added a Y adaptor to my sound card to allow sound to go to my TV speakers.
I found the Hauppauge remote was sometimes unresponsive to the volume control (it may take 1-30 secs to take effect, with a series of remote clicks suddenly actioned at once!).

5.12.4 Beta working well
I had a bizarre bug where the Hauppauge Remote only worked with a few buttons eg Menu button.
To fix the problem I upgraded to the Sage 2.1 RC4 Beta
There are no dramatic changes but it is running smoothly.

5.12.5 Looking at MPEG4 file compression

Inevitably I've almost filled my disk with stuff I wish to look at later when I have more time.
With 2GB/hour quality films are often 5-6GB in size (4.7GB is max DVD file size)
I've ordered a Dual Layer DVD writer but because disks are £4-6 each I'm looking at compression to fit movies on a single layer DVD (80p each)


Compression tools
These are all new to me. Most are MPEG4 compatible which gives better compression than MPEG2.
The bad news is that compressing a 2GB/hour file, is not like using pkzip!
It can take two hours and more to compress a 1 hour file with my Athlon 2800 processor.
It will take almost 100% cpu usage unless you run as a lower priority process.
The only solution is to buy the fastest processor you can afford and you'll still wait!

I've tried out Dr DIVX. This is a popular format and has an easy to use front end.
The main drawback is the $50 cost if do not plan to use it heavily.

An alternative is XVid (pun on the initials with DIVX) which is open source and free.
AutoGordian Knot (AutoGK) is also fairy easy to use calling multiple programs in turn to compress
your file.

Perhaps there will more PVRs cards along soon that record in MPEG4 not MPEG2
eg Plextor PX-TV402U (NTSC format)

5.12.6 Weaknesses with Sage hardware support for Europeans

Occassionally I've wanted to record 2 programs at once.
My plan was to use one device which grabs Freeview TV programs from an aerial and records them just live the PVR-250, eg the Hauppauge DEC 2000-T
Unfortunately SageTV do not support these cards (DVB cards).
Instead I would have to buy a Freeview receiver, a USB UIRT to change channels on it automatically and then a PVR-150

http://www.sage.tv/requirements.html
There is a long thread on the forums about volunteer beta software for these DVB cards this but I found it confusing to read, never mind implement!


5.12.7 Hardware News
Hauppauge promote PVR-150 as PVR-250 replacement
PVR500 due in UK soon (record 2 channels at once

5.12.8 Removing adverts manually

Following good reviews on the Frey forums I've just tried VideoRedo
http://www.drdsystems.com/VideoReDo

You must register the Trial version (free) to use on files over 30 mins then you have a fully functional product for 15 days.
It is very easy to use, you browse the video file and you just mark the beginning and end of each section (adverts) you want to cut. Having repeated this process on all the ads the program will create a new file without the ads. It takes about 10 minutes to produce the new edited file. The only drawback is the $50 cost.

I could not find a recommended freeware product for Windows

There alternatives eg free Linux gopchop which I have not tested.



5.13 Jan 2007

Have been enjoying stable recording since the last update in Nov 2004
With rising electricity costs I started using Hibernate in the Windows power settings and it works well
Upgraded the processor slightly to AMD-3200
You still have to allow 1-2 hours of processing time for each hour of video when compressing to Mpeg4

I have had intermittant problems burning files to DVD and getting them to verify but this is nothing to do with SageTV. (it turned out to be a branded media problem)

I purchased the upgrade to SageTV6 at Christmas but have not got around to installing it yet.